Interview: Shao Feng

Video Tabs

(00:00)
城中村最大的特点是农村工业化支撑起来的城镇化,所以城镇化也是从农村开始的。
The biggest characteristic of urban villages is the urbanization supported by rural industrialization. Therefore, urbanization also started in the rural area. 
 
(00:11)
浙江乡村企业发展比较早,是因为浙江七山二水一分田,山多、人多、地少,一方水土活不了一方老百姓。
The rural enterprises of Zhejiang started earlier, because Zhejiang features 70 percent of mountain, 20 percent of water and 10 percent of farming land. The residents there cannot survive only on the farming land. 
 
(00:24)
所以改革开放以后,放开了手脚的农民在城乡风格的体制下面,就把少量的农地剩余就地转化为工业化的资本。
So after carrying out reform and open-up policy, the unrestricted peasants started to transfer the limited surplus farming land into the capitals of industrialization locally under the rural-urban structure. 
 
(00:38)
一开始这些乡村工业还不是在小城镇里面发展的,更多的还是在村里面。所以家家点火,村村冒烟。
At first, these rural enterprises were not run in small towns, but basically in villages. Therefore, they were scattered in villages. 
 
(00:52)
可是当时农村里面基础设施很不完善,交通很不方便。所以它并不是一个最理想的办公地方,只是大家方便,城里面大家进不去,或者我没有能力进去。
However, the rural infrastructure facilities were not perfect then. The traffic was inconvenient. Therefore, it was not an ideal workplace. It was only for everyone’s convenience. Since it was hard to get access to the cities, or they didn’t have the capability to go there. 
 
(01:11)
所以我只能搬到村里面,搬着搬着。随着有一部分企业率先的开始扩大一些规模,就觉得村里不合适,所以自然就向城镇聚集。
So, they could only move into villages and stay there. With some enterprises taking lead in enlarging the production scale, they found it unsuitable to stay in villages any more, so they started to flock into towns naturally.  
 
(01:26)
当然有一些企业最早就搬到城镇了,这样就是越来越多的企业在城乡风格的情况下,大城市他进不去,他只能在小城镇生存。
Of course, some enterprises moved into towns early. More and more enterprises choose to survive in small towns under the urban-rural pattern as they could not tap into big cities. 
 
(01:41)
这样所以浙江的城镇化是因为这么一个农村工业支撑起来的城镇化,所以它这个城镇化只能在城乡风格的体制下,只能在县的范围内。
Therefore, urbanization in Zhejiang has been supported by the rural industries. As a result, this type of urbanization is restricted to the scope of county in the current urban-rural structure system. 
 
(01:55)
所以我们就县工业化,县城镇化。那么这种城镇化的结果就是催生了一大批小城市,少量的中等城市,更大多数的是小城镇的快速成长。
Therefore, we have to carry out county-level industrialization and county-level urbanization. This has created a large batch of small cities as well as a few medium-sized cities and especially forced the rapid growth of small cities and towns. 
 
(02:13)
所以这个浙江城镇化,就是以中小城市和小城镇为主体的。那么这个大城市的发展,是在跨世纪以后,就是浙江的城镇化突破了县的界限。
Therefore, urbanization in Zhejiang mainly focused on medium- and small cities and small towns. The development of big cities began in the new century when the urbanization broke the restriction of counties. 
 
(02:33)
那么就有一部分已经有了一定成长水平的企业,它觉得县这个品牌又不够大了,它就又往外面跑了。那么随着我们市场经济的发展,城乡风格的状况在逐步的松动。
Some fast-growth enterprises found that the brand at county level was not adequate, so they started to expand further. With the development of market economy, the urban-rural structure is being loosened gradually. 
 
(02:52)
所以有一部分企业就开始往大城市工业园区里面聚集了,更高的平台聚集。甚至上海浦东开发,集聚到上海浦东去了,或者集聚到其他地方去了。这个是到现在为止,我们浙江的城市化,我们现在叫城市化,没有什么界限。
Some enterprises then have started to gather in higher platforms such as large industrial parks of big cities. Some have even moved to Shanghai Pudong or other places. That’s the process of urbanization in Zhejiang. Now, this urbanization has no boundary. 
 
(03:15)
但是它的起步阶段是在县的范围内的,这样就是我们到现在为止,我们的城镇化是当然有一部分大城市。像数量也不多功能也不够强。
However, the preliminary stage was within the scope of county. Up to now, our urbanization is only partly embodied in a few big cities. There are not many of them, and their functions are not strong as well. 
 
(03:35)
更多的是我们中小城市数量很多,所以这样的一种格局,使得城乡关系就比较融洽。
The majority is our medium- and small-sized cities. Such a pattern has made urban-rural relationship very harmonious. 
 
(03:45)
为什么比较融洽呢?因为小城市它是天然的和三农有联系。农民进去创业就业落户没什么门槛,或者说门槛非常低。
Why? Because small cities have natural relationships with the agricultural, rural and peasant sector. There’s no threshold for peasants to do business, find jobs or buy a house there. Or the threshold is very low. 
 
(04:01)
原来计划经济体制下形成的那些体制,在它那里也无所谓。那些体制主要在大城市里面,城市户口有这个保险那个保险,农村户口都没有,小城镇地面就没几个城市户口。
Those mechanisms formed during the planned economic system pose no problem at all. Those mechanisms mainly function in big cities. A permanent urban residence certificate is related to various insurances. But a rural residence certificate has nothing. There are few urban hukou holders in small cities or towns.  
 
(04:18)
所以他们小城镇就成为农民创业就业的大平台,这样农民可以很容易的进入到这个城里面去。
Therefore, small cities and towns have become a major platform for entrepreneurship and employment of peasants. Peasants can easily get access into the urban society.
 
(04:32)
那么同时农民进去以后,他对农业有促进作用。农村我们开始土地流转,开始到规模经营。
At the same time, they will play a positive role for agriculture. We start to implement land circulation in the rural area and progress to scale operation. 
 
(04:44)
所以浙江的农业现代化水平,相比较来说也在全国走在前列。
Therefore, agricultural modernization level in Zhejiang comparatively takes lead in China. 
 
(04:49)
那在这个过程当中,有没有什么好的例子您可以举几个。
Can you give some good examples? 
 
(04:54)
在这个过程当中,您讲最开始其实是从农村的乡镇企业开始的,一步一步的慢慢扩大。随着我们外部的环境慢慢开放。
For this process, you started with the rural township enterprises, and then expand the scope. It is a process of gradual open-up following the external environment. 
 
(05:18)
所以它的城镇化脚步也是慢慢地一步一步往大城市走,在这个过程当中有没有什么好的例子您给我们介绍一下。
Therefore, urbanization is a step-by-step process toward big cities. Can you introduce some good examples during this process? 
 
(05:27)
这个例子其实每个地方都是这样的,这个过程当中我刚才说的大致过程。在这里面其实还有一些小的阶段的。
It is basically the same case with every place. It is the general process as I mentioned just now. There’re in fact some smaller phases inside it. 
 
(05:39)
那么90年代初开始有些地方包括县城边上,包括有一定规模的小城镇边上,大概是搞自己的一个工业小区。
In the early 1990s, some counties, including some towns with certain scales started to set up their own industrial gardens. 
 
(05:54)
就为一部分在村里面的一些企业想要扩大规模,想要有更高的发展平台,为他们提供这个服务。他们集聚有个平台,就搞工业小区。
Some village enterprises wanted to enlarge their scales or wanted higher development platforms to provide them with this service. They set up industrial gardens to provide this platform. 
 
(06:11)
这样又推动了城镇的发展,这是每个地方都这样。另外还有一个是浙江省比较特殊的形象,我们叫企业集群,或者有时候叫(快涨经济)。
Accordingly, this promoted the development of towns. It was the same case with every place. Besides, there’s a special phenomenon in Zhejiang. We call it enterprise cluster, or sometimes “fast-growth economy”. 
 
(06:23)
就是浙江的农村工业化有个很大的特点,就是农民是很善于模仿开样。
One major feature of rural industrialization in Zhejiang is that the peasants are very good at imitation. 
 
(06:36)
今天你创了个业很赚钱,大家知道我也可以搞,明天我也就搞起来了。后天别人又搞起来了,久而久之就有一大部分人都在搞这个东西,这个最后就是…
Today you opened a very profitable business. I can learn from you and I will open a similar business tomorrow. Then, another person follows the day after tomorrow. Gradually, a large portion of people are doing this business. At last it will form a business cluster.