Interview: Axel Friedrich

Video Tabs

(00:00)
Former time, highly polluted cities like, Mexico City, London, Bangkok, Berlin, very high level of pollution, but these cities are much cleaner. 
有些城市以前污染严重,如墨西哥市、伦敦、柏林、曼谷… … 
但这些城市现在干净了许多。
 
(00:15)
In Berlin for example, we have now a level of pollution that we had 20 years ago on the countryside. 
比如说柏林,现在的污染程度已经降到了20年前农村地区的水平。
 
(00:20)
Mexico City once was claimed the highest polluted city suburb. Now you can breath again. 
墨西哥市以前是污染最严重的城市,但现在人们可以再次呼吸。
 
(00:27)
Bangkok, while walking in the city, you had headaches. Now it’s much, much better.
以前漫步在曼谷街头,人会感到头痛,但现在情况明显好转。
 
(00:34)
Now people are killed by the high level of pollution. Now it’s not good, but it’s much, better. 
现在尽管有人因为污染而死亡,情况也依旧不容乐观,但环境确实出现明显改善。
 
(00:40)
The question is: how was this achieved? 
问题在于,这是如何实现的?
 
(00:43)
Of course, it’s not one measure. 
当然,这不光是某一项措施的功劳。
 
(00:45)
If a single measure that everybody knows that must be done, like parking management, but other things are more difficult to select. 
有些措施和停车管理一样,其重要性人尽皆知,但其它措施如何去权衡,这个问题要更为棘手。
 
(00:53)
So you need an inventory. 
所以需要一个措施清单。
 
(00:55)
You need the basic information: what are the most important sources, to select the most cost-effective one? 
你需要基本的信息:什么才是主要污染源,什么样的措施成本效益最好?
 
(01:04)
Because you have not endless amount of money and therefore need to select which gives you the best result to improve health. 
毕竟资金有限,所以要选择最有效的措施,来改善健康。
 
(01:13)
Because people are killed by this high level of air pollution. It’s a killer. Millions of people are killed in China by this high level of air pollution. 
这样严重的污染可至人死亡。它就是健康杀手。在中国,数以百万计的人因空气污染而死亡。
 
(01:23)
This should not happen. I don't want to be killed. You don't want to be killed. Why we let other people killing?
这样的事情不该发生。没有人愿意因此而丧命。怎能容忍同胞因此而丧命。
 
(01:32)
This is murder, slow murder. So it’s not wise. 
这是谋杀,缓慢的谋杀。
 
(01:37)
As for Mexico after this, was obvious: it’s high pollution. So the President, with the help of World Bank, called in a group of seven world-known experts to develop measures. 
墨西哥市的污染问题很明显。所以总统在世界银行的帮助下,召集了由七位国际著名专家组成的小组,来制定对策。
 
(01:50)
And we made recommendation and they followed. Of course, one of the important parts is to improve the database. 
他们遵循了我们提出的建议。当中一个重要的任务就是改善数据库。
 
(01:58)
The result is we can now make good recommendations. 
这样一来,我们就可以提出更好的建议。
 
(02:01)
Same happened in Bangkok: all the experts were called in and made the recommendation and government implemented it. 
曼谷也是一样:政府召集的专家,提出建议,再由政府负责实施。
 
(02:08)
Unluckily, all the otherwise clear air would be there like in Berlin, but it improved dramatically. 
尽管空气不如柏林一样的清新,但污染依旧有了大幅的改善。
 
(02:14)
So this, I would also recommend: to take a comprehensive approach, to reduce the level of pollution in Chinese cities, because not only Beijing, not only Shanghai, not only Jiangsu, it’s hundreds of cities which are highly polluted. 
为此我建议,要采取综合方案来降低中国城市的污染水平,因为遭受污染的不仅是北京,上海,和江苏,而是国内数百座城市。
 
(02:31)
If I would be asked: what should be done in Beijing or other major cities? 
如果问我,北京和其它的大城市应该如何应对。
 
(02:37)
First, a step most important, obvious measure to implement, find out solutions, invite key experts and develop a plan. 
首先,重要的一步是寻找解决方案,邀请关键的专家来制定计划。
 
(02:50)
Yes, there are great experts in China, but of course, you need experience from outside. Don't repeat the mistake, which we have done in Europe or the United States. 
纵然国内有不少知名专家,但中国仍需要借鉴国外经验。不要像我们一样,在欧洲和美国犯下同样的错误。
 
(03:00)
You do make mistakes in a short period of time, so learn all this from the successes. 
短时间内难免会犯错,所以要多借鉴成功经验。
 
(03:06)
And at the same time, repeat what we have achieved in Europe to improve. 
同时,可以借鉴我们在欧洲取得的成果。
 
(03:09)
As an example, we have national bicycle plan in Germany, or Netherlands. 
比如,我们在德国和荷兰都推行了全民自行车计划。
 
(03:14)
We had the same decline in bicycle use that you have seen. 
和今天一样,当时自行车的使用率开始下降
 
(03:19)
In the 1950s when I was young, everybody bought a bike. 
在50年代的时候我还年轻,当时人手一辆自行车。
 
(03:21)
Then it went down dramatically, but now it’s improving, because we thought (to implement) the best politics by the government, we needed a bicycle plan. 
但随后自行车数量大幅下降,不过现在开始回升。因为我们认为政府有必要推行自行车计划。
 
(03:31)
So I recommended it for China to have a national bicycle plan. 
所以我建议中国推行全民自行车计划。
 
(03:34)
To educate the planner, we need an initial bicycle academy. 
首先可以建立一个研究院,来培养规划者。
 
(03:37)
So a lot of things should be done to connect all the means or the modes. 
要下大力气,将所有的交通方式连接到一起。
 
(03:43)
So with bicycle, you go to the subway, or the train, park your bike and then go the long distance. 
你可以选择骑车到地铁站,把车停在站外,然后搭乘地铁去较远的地方。
 
(03:49)
And in the end, again you have the bicycle. So this is very fast. 
因为有自行车,出行更加便捷。
 
(03:54)
Of course, you cannot go by bike (through) the whole Beijing, (‘cause) it’s too large. But you can connect public transport and bicycle and you are as fast as all cars. 
北京是座大城市,当然不可能骑自行车环游全城,但可以将公共系统与自行车相连接;这样一来,速度和汽车不相上下。
 
(04:03)
So if it is cars, it is a disaster. Very often it is faster going by foot than by car. 
若选择开车,那简直就是灾难。经常是步行比开车还要快。
 
(04:09)
So why not have all these means, which improve public health, save money, all for the administration, because one kilometer on a bike costs the city only 1/5 than would cost on a car. 
何不整合利用所有的交通方式,这样既可以改善公共健康,节省资金,还便于管理。因为自行车在城市行驶一公里的成本只有汽车的1 / 5。
 
(04:24)
So it’s much cheaper, much more cost effective: improve health, improve safety and climate. So what else you want?
这样更便宜,成本效益更高;即可改善健康,保障安全,又能改善气候,何乐而不为?
 
(04:31)
So we have a lot of solutions, which are useful to be implemented in Chinese cities. 
我们有诸多有效的解决方案供中国城市借鉴。
 
(04:36)
The question is: if you have not a plan, not to convince people, not to have facilities, if I was going around by bicycle in Beijing, yet all the bicycles lanes end up locked. 
但问题是, 缺乏计划和设施,就无法说服他人,本想骑车环游北京,所有的自行车道却被封闭。
 
(04:46)
The interest to drive. So this should be a priority for the transport means. 
这样一来,只得开车。所以自行车应成为首选的交通工具。
 
(04:57)
So for example in Copenhagen, they have green light lanes for bicycles, not for cars. 
例如在哥本哈根,有专门的自行车绿色通道,汽车不得占用。
 
(05:02)
So you can cross the whole city, about 22 kilo per hour, without stopping. 
这样你就可以骑车游遍整座城市,全程时速可保持在22公里/小时。
 
(05:07)
So they made special purchase just for bicycle. So they are faster than cars.
他们专门为自行车开设车道,结果骑车还要快于开车。
 
(05:13)
So what else you want, you have to make it faster, a more favorable transport means. 
必须要让自行车成为更快捷,更便利的交通工具。
 
(05:17)
Here, it’s opposite. Anything is done to promote cars. 
这里恰恰相反,所有一切都是为了推行汽车。
 
(05:22)
It will bring us disastrous results, because you cannot move. 
这会带来灾难性的后果,导致交通彻底拥堵。
 
(05:27)
You can build us the second ring road, the third ring road, the fifth ring road, the six ring road, the seventh ring road. 
你可以绕道走二环路,三环路,五环路,六环路,甚至七环路……
 
(05:32)
The city has the opposite: more roads, more cars, (and) more traffic. Nothing else, because in the end, all cars end in the city and this means, of course, no space. 
结果适得其反。道路越多,汽车就越多,交通流量就越大。到最后,所有汽车都拥堵在城市内,丝毫没有空间。
 
(05:47)
Obviously, this is not a solution. 
显然这算不上是解决方案。
 
(05:50)
City is for people, not for cars. 
城市应以人为本,而不是汽车。
 
(05:52)
So you want a have a city or cars? You have to make decisions. 
究竟是想要一座城市,还是汽车?由你来决定。
 
(05:55)
Unluckily, the decision made in New York, or here, or the United States, is cars. 
不幸的是,在美国纽约以及这所城市,最后都选择了汽车。
 
(06:02)
But if the United States know that the city is aching because of all the cars, this is not my dream for city. 
如果纽约能意识到,汽车实乃城市之痛,那理想城市就不会是这个样子了。
 
(06:09)
It should be for people, should be livable cities, green cities, clean cities, quiet cities.
理想城市应以人为本,适宜居住,绿色成荫,且干净安宁。
 
(06:16)
Anything is possible if you reverse this trend. 
若能扭转这个势头,一切皆有可能。
 
(06:21)
This is the question the polity has to answer.
这是政府必须要回答的问题。
 
(06:25)
This is not coming alone. Of course, you need the support of the people, tell the people this is the best solution for you, for your neighbors, for the whole society. 
当然你不能单凭一己之力,还需要民众的支持。要向民众解释,这是对己,对社区,对整个社会来说的最佳方案。
 
(06:37)
We are running out of time. We are creating huge damage to our climate. 
我们时间紧迫,气候正遭受到严重破坏。
 
(06:46)
This is heritage for our children, for our grandchildren. 
这是我们留给子孙后代的遗产。
 
(06:49)
I don't believe the right answer is not sustainable, by far not.
我认为这样不可持续的措施不是最终的答案,至少现在还不是。